|
|
Post by fredkite on Feb 22, 2017 2:16:34 GMT -7
***I've updated the title and am placing this thread as a "sticky" for others to read***
PS
Guys,
If any of you have the Kayfun Mini V3 .. do you find the draw very loose and if you try to get it tighter, the tank tends to gurgle?
If so, have any of you found a solution?
I've bought the plastic airflow screws as some folk said this improves it, it does but not by much and it's a shame as it's a lovely tank with great flavour but I do prefer a tighter draw?
I thought it worth an ask!
|
|
|
|
Post by PipeSmith on Feb 22, 2017 12:35:25 GMT -7
There are a couple of things at play with the V3 and V5 - all simultaneously.
With the addition of adjustable juice flow on the vacuum tanks, a tight draw with too much juice flow will create flooding of the chamber - this causes the gurgling you're experiencing.
It may take a few tries at setting up to find your sweet spot, but about two (2) turns open seems to be the neighborhood in which the V3 really works (for me, at least), and 2 - 2 1/2 turns open for the V5 - these are with running 50/50 NETs.
But, here's the real issue; these tanks (and most all other Kayfun and Kayfun-styled platform tanks) tend to leak from under the positive (+) block, so as you're chasing the "airyness" trying to shore up the draw, the internal vacuum can bounce all over the place, often drawing excess juice into the chamber and creating a flooded deck.
The culprit here is the Derlin/ Peek insulator beneath the + block. Both of these materials make fantastic ELECTRICAL insulators, but not so much as a VISCOUS (air/ fluid) insulator. This fault really becomes evident as the atomizer is used/ heated/ cooled/ taken apart and rebuilt/ etc., as the common approach is to simply attempt to tighten the center post a bit further to achieve a reasonable seal between the + block and the build deck. This typically results in a warped or otherwise damaged insulator, subsequently leading to more leakage.
On the V3 and V5, these issues can be compounded, as they use an entirely different center post than those we are accustomed to with the older Kayfun platforms. These new center posts are only partially threaded, meaning that you only have *so much* room to tighten or adjust before the threading bottoms out in the + block; attempting to continue tightening typically results in a broken center post.
No worries - we have a fix! The addition of a simple o-ring around the center post that rides beneath the + block and insulator completely alleviates all of the juice & air leakage. This is a drop-in fix for the V5, and only requires a shaving of the skirt on the center insulator for the V3 (for now/ we look to have a drop-in replacement soon). The small o-rings needed aren't typically available at the corner hardware store, so I order them in bulk from an industrial supply company - and you'll receive a few in your PipeSmith package when it arrives.
I am also working on setting up a "Kayfun Upgrade" package that will entail the appropriate o-ring, as well as much nicer, easier to work with deck screws that capture the coil leg wire superior to those commonly used. More on this later in another post of other new things on the drawing board.
On the airflow screws -
Personally, I don't use them; I remove the screw from the V3 center post and toss it in a box. I then make an insert that I press into the center post to establish a 1.6mm ID - the same as I run on my V5. For me, this creates a nice, even draw, that is much more pipe-like in nature, and with the aforementioned o-ring upgrade in place - I'm not chasing air leaks, so I know what the airflow will always be.
Why do I do this? The fact that there is now nothing to move out of adjustment and change the air feed is actually a benefit that is complimented by smoother airflow. Just because we may prefer a bit tighter draw doesn't mean that we should have to settle with turbulent/ whistling air flow.
Using the adjustment screw creates additional obstacles in the flow path of each port of the center post that the incoming air must hit, then maneuver around, then enter the actual "chamber" inside the center post. This can be compounded on devices using an adjustment screw that is not tapered, but has threading that would also be introduced into the path of air flow. I also chamfer the inlet ports on the center post a bit to smooth out this flow and directional transition as much as possible.
I hope this has been more helpful than confusing / any questions at all, or anything I can do to help - just give a shout!
PS
|
|
|
|
Post by fredkite on Feb 22, 2017 13:53:35 GMT -7
Ken .. thanks for that, a lot to take in but take it in I will! Really appreciated! Once I've read and digested it, I'll come back to you with any questions, I'm sure I'll have some, I usually do.  |
|
|
|
Post by fredkite on Feb 23, 2017 1:47:13 GMT -7
Just a couple of things Ken.
I intend to strip down my V3 today to get a good look at the centre post and where the o-ring goes, if I hit any snags I'll come back to you separately.
On the airflow screws, you say you discard them and make an insert that you press into the centre post, what is the insert made from/how do you make it?
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by PipeSmith on Feb 23, 2017 10:04:02 GMT -7
Just a couple of things Ken. I intend to strip down my V3 today to get a good look at the centre post and where the o-ring goes, if I hit any snags I'll come back to you separately. On the airflow screws, you say you discard them and make an insert that you press into the centre post, what is the insert made from/how do you make it? Thanks. When you pull it apart (you'll need a 5mm nut driver to remove the center post), you'll see an insulator that resides around the middle of the center post. This insulator has a base shoulder, and a very thin-wall skirt; it is this skirt that needs to be cut/ filed/ sanded in order to make room for the new o-ring. The V5 has a different center insulator, so it requires no modification/ just seat the o-ring and go with it. The insert that I make to meter air flow can be made from stainless or brass tubing with the appropriate ID, filed down if necessary to fit, then pressed into the center post on a small vise. This is very similar to how the MTL kit works on the V5, with the exception that this pressed-in-place piece is not something you'll be removing. PS |
|
|
|
Post by fredkite on Feb 23, 2017 10:14:20 GMT -7
Just a couple of things Ken. I intend to strip down my V3 today to get a good look at the centre post and where the o-ring goes, if I hit any snags I'll come back to you separately. On the airflow screws, you say you discard them and make an insert that you press into the centre post, what is the insert made from/how do you make it? Thanks. When you pull it apart (you'll need a 5mm nut driver to remove the center post), you'll see an insulator that resides around the middle of the center post. This insulator has a base shoulder, and a very thin-wall skirt; it is this skirt that needs to be cut/ filed/ sanded in order to make room for the new o-ring. The V5 has a different center insulator, so it requires no modification/ just seat the o-ring and go with it. The insert that I make to meter air flow can be made from stainless or brass tubing with the appropriate ID, filed down if necessary to fit, then pressed into the center post on a small vise. This is very similar to how the MTL kit works on the V5, with the exception that this pressed-in-place piece is not something you'll be removing. PS Got it ... thanks Ken.I've got as far as removing the centre stem just to check it all out, sounds within my capabilities! Thank you so much for your help! |
|
|
|
Post by fredkite on Feb 23, 2017 12:44:56 GMT -7
Ken .. do you push it in from the top of the centre post or the bottom .. and what length do you make it? The full length of the centre post or less than that?
Thanks .. I'm sorry for all the questions!
|
|
|
|
Post by PipeSmith on Feb 23, 2017 13:08:05 GMT -7
I presume you're referring to the air metering tube -
If you're making one, you'll want to cut your initial tubing so that it is shorter than the measurement from the upper-most edge of the air intake ports to the top of the center post.
Once cut, clean up the end of the tube that will be entering the center post first, and chamfer the inner lip for smooth air flow. Then, a quick filing or sanding of the tubing walls to size the tube down, but not to where it fits easily into the center tube - you want a tight press-fit. Once achieved, I use a small vise to press the tube into the center post from the top (threaded) end. It doesn't need to extend very deep into the center post, and you don't want this insert to encroach at all in the air intake ports of the center post (physics 101 says an internal restriction, regardless of length, meters the flow of the vessel).
Once you're happy with the fitment, a quick filing of the top-most portion of the insert to meet with the center post/ clean up the inner top lip and dress this all together, and you will make a nice finished piece. Be careful to not bugger up the threads.
It's a neat, fairly quick project - things to really start dialing in your pipe experience.
PS
|
|
|
|
Post by fredkite on Feb 23, 2017 14:46:57 GMT -7
Right .. so I'm making something similar to the MTL kit ( 3 x tubes with differing diameters) for the Kayfun 5. Difference is, once in, it's not coming out again? Got it .. I think?
|
|
|
|
Post by PipeSmith on Feb 23, 2017 14:53:00 GMT -7
Yep - that's exactly it. Metering the air flow by means of an insert.
PS
|
|
|
|
Post by fredkite on Feb 24, 2017 7:43:22 GMT -7
Ken .. just as a matter of interest, will the o-ring alone help solve part of the gurgling issue?
I've scoured the internet all morning and can't for the life of me find any stainless or brass tube with an ID of 1.6mm but with an OD greater than the 2.3mm or 2.4mm of the centre stem. The biggest OD I can find is 2mm which would just fall in! (I've measured as best I can using my coil rods, the 2mm just falls in but the 2.5mm won't go in so I'm guessing it's in the region I mentioned above).
I'll keep looking but curious as to whether the o-ring solution alone would help? I've had it apart and see what you mean about the skirt, I would just need to measure up against the o-ring and remove that depth off the skirt I guess?
It's a real shame SvoeMesto don't make a MTL kit for the V3 as they do for the V5.
|
|
|
|
Post by PipeSmith on Feb 24, 2017 9:56:52 GMT -7
Ken .. just as a matter of interest, will the o-ring alone help solve part of the gurgling issue? I've scoured the internet all morning and can't for the life of me find any stainless or brass tube with an ID of 1.6mm but with an OD greater than the 2.3mm or 2.4mm of the centre stem. The biggest OD I can find is 2mm which would just fall in! (I've measured as best I can using my coil rods, the 2mm just falls in but the 2.5mm won't go in so I'm guessing it's in the region I mentioned above). I'll keep looking but curious as to whether the o-ring solution alone would help? I've had it apart and see what you mean about the skirt, I would just need to measure up against the o-ring and remove that depth off the skirt I guess? It's a real shame SvoeMesto don't make a MTL kit for the V3 as they do for the V5. The o-ring will alleviate all juice and air leakage from beneath the + block. Doing so will stabilize the vacuum inside the tank, translating to an end to the "free run" of juice into the chamber. This being said; if the atomizer is correctly built, the balance of o-rings are in good shape (and not dry), the coil is positioned a couple of mm above the air feed hole of the center post - the only gurgling that should then be created will stem from wicking, and balancing the air/ juice feed. I run these tanks all day/ every day, and never a gurgle. Center insulator - if you look at the insulator and see the transition from the larger shoulder to the thin "skirt" portion, this skirt should be cut/ sanded/ filed/ etc down to the point of the shoulder, essentially creating more of a washer. This insulator is necessary in the deck to provide a shoulder for the center post to tighten against when securing the + block since the base of the center post only has an o-ring present to seal the bottom air intake chamber. Your package is finished and will ship Monday (I didn't finish in time to put some time in to using it, which should be done before crossing the mighty Atlantic) - I will also drop in a small piece of tubing that you can work with if you want to attempt to make the air meter insert. PS |
|
|
|
Post by fredkite on Feb 24, 2017 11:04:12 GMT -7
Brilliant .. Can't wait Ken .. sooner than I thought too, I was expecting at least 3-weeks so that's an added bonus, thanks for that.
Also, appreciate the small piece of tube, I will most certainly give it a go, I can pick up a spare centre post for a few quid so nothing to lose in trying.
|
|
|
|
Post by PipeSmith on Mar 9, 2017 21:21:48 GMT -7
****I have re-named and "Stickied" this thread in the "Piping Atomizers" category for others to reference****
PS
|
|
|
|
Post by fredkite on Mar 14, 2017 3:42:51 GMT -7
Well ... with some 3/32" brass rod, a hand file on a swiss army knife and lot's of patience .. and thanks to PipeSmith of course .. I have made an insert for my Kayfun V3. I did manage to damage one centre post at the first attempt, tried to force the brass tube down when it wasn't quite small enough, something Ken did warn about so having learnt the hard way, I think patience is the key, a little filing and try it, a little more and try it, etc. I don't have a vice so simply turned the centre post upside down and lightly pushed it on my wooden desk .. and eventually it just 'clicked' in. The draw, which in my opinion let the V3 down, is now perfect! |
|
